In part two of Scottscope's interview with retired LAPD detective Greg Kading (Click here to read part 1 if you haven't already), Mr. Kading talks about being taken off the Biggie and Tupac murder investigations before his team was able to make a single arrest. He also delves a bit deeper into the criminal ties of Marion "Suge" Knight and Sean "P. Diddy" Combs.
Scott Wilson:
Judging by Keefe D’s version of events, it was hard to tell how serious Sean
Combs was about having Tupac and Suge Knight killed. He almost seemed shocked when Tupac’s murder
actually took place. By contrast, Suge
clearly wanted Biggie dead and took the necessary steps to get the job done. Does that mean that Suge had a tighter grip
on his criminal ties than Diddy?
Greg Kading: No,
I think that there’s just a deeper intent to get the thing done. I believe Puffy was operating out of fear and
desperation. He had a target on his back
out here (The West Coast). He was aware
Suge was trying to hunt him down. There
had already been blood spilled. I think
that Puffy was generally just scared and felt like his back was against the
wall, and maybe out of fear, frustration and desperation he solicits this
murder without really thinking it through. Just out of like boasting or
talking: “I need these guys out of the way, can you take care of this? I’ll give you whatever you need.” As opposed to Suge, who deliberately and intentionally
set the thing up. There was a different
approach to it, and I think that Suge’s was much more direct and intentional.
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Sean "P. Diddy" Combs (left) and Marion "Suge" Knight (right0 |
Scott Wilson: Has
Russell Poole contacted you in regards to Murder
Rap? Has he given a public reaction
to you or the book?
Greg Kading: No. I’ve made a couple of attempts to get his
phone number. I would love to sit down
and talk with him. I would love to allow
him to evaluate the information. He has
just made kind of irresponsible responses to this by saying “Hey, people
confess to murders all the time. So I
don’t buy it.” Well that’s a ridiculous statement, because people don’t confess
to murders like this all the time.
Remember, he was on this case for one year at the
beginning. He didn’t have all the access
to the material that we have. Although
his theory captured the public’s imagination, it never went anywhere. Even in the civil suit they couldn’t
accomplish anything based on that theory.
It’s a theory that’s full of holes.
It’s actually baseless when you look at the foundation of how the theory
was built. For whatever reason, the
people that have worked on these cases before have dug in their heels and they’re
kind of refusing to accept the reality that they were wrong. It’s unfortunate, because it’s not in
everybody’s best interest to stick your head in the sand and pretend this isn’t
happening.
Scott Wilson: It seems that once you and your taskforce were
able to disprove Russell Poole’s theories about LAPD involvement in the Biggie
Smalls murder, the department no longer had any interest in pursuing the case
further. Given that Suge Knight is a
high profile individual who flaunts his gang ties, wouldn’t it have been in the
department’s best interest to see the investigation through to completion and
put him behind bars? Wouldn’t that go a
long way in counteracting any embarrassment or scandal that the department
might endure in the process?
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Tupac Shakur (left) and Marion "Suge" Knight (right) |
Greg Kading:
Absolutely. I’m still bewildered by it. I’m doing more to clear up their name and to
set the record straight than they are themselves. It just makes absolutely no
sense, it really doesn’t. But it just goes back to an attitude of
indifference. “We’re out from under the
lawsuit. We’ve spent enough time and
energy on that damn case. Everybody just
go back to work.” I don’t get it, quite
frankly.
Scott Wilson:
When I first heard the claims you were making in your book, particularly your
refutation of the LAPD’s involvement in Biggie’s murder, I felt that you were
simply doing damage control for the LAPD.
What would you say to anyone with similar opinions about you and your
book?
Greg Kading: Well,
I would just say just look at it objectively.
Obviously, the story of having LAPD officers involved in a murder is salacious
story. It’s a much more appealing
story. A lot of people who come from
these urban backgrounds already have a predisposed attitude about law
enforcement, so it’s easy to believe it’s true.
But when you really look at it, it’s baseless.
Once they see that the Amir Muhammad and David Mack claims had
no foundation, the whole thing dissipates into thin air and there’s just no
reason to believe it whatsoever. Another
important point is that the LAPD always knew that they could disprove Poole’s
theory, that’s why they refused to settle out of court for even two million
dollars. It was going to cost the city
more to engage in a civil suit then it would’ve if they would’ve basically
settled out for two million, which was the request. They said “No, we’re not going to because we
can disprove this at its very core.” As
the civil case went through its motions, all these jailhouse informants went
running for the hills. They all
recanted. They all admitted that they
were lying, and the whole case fell apart because everybody knew it was a big
smoke and mirrors deal.
Scott Wilson: Have you read Ronin Ro’s book Have Gun Will Travel? It chronicles the rise and fall of Death Row.
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Cover art for the paperback version of Ronin Ro's Have Gun Will Travel: The Spectacular Rise and Violent Fall of Death Row Records. |
Greg Kading: Yeah. I have been asked that question before, and I
said that I wasn’t sure. But now that I’ve gone back and looked at all my
materials, I had a whole bunch of stuff that was xeroxed out of that book that
I used for reference. So yeah, I have read that, and my partner also purchased
it early on and had it available for the investigation.
Scott Wilson: Since
you’ve read it, would you say that the characterization of Suge Knight in that
book matches the profile you and your team were able to develop on him?
Greg Kading: Well
I don’t want to misspeak, so I’d have to get into more specifics. If you could help me out with characterizing
the profile that was presented in the book then I can agree with it. I never did like a side by side comparison.
Scott Wilson: The
book made some pretty strong allegations.
It talked about Suge basically using rape as a form of terrorism against
some of his male employees and the rival label heads he was trying to extort. It also talks about him having other people
killed. It makes him look altogether
more fearsome. It paints the atmosphere
surrounding Death Row as a kind of free-for-all. Would you say that’s accurate to what you
discovered about him during your investigation?
Greg Kading: I
would say all of that’s pretty consistent except for the rape allegations. I’m not saying that that’s not true; I’m just
basically saying that I’m not aware of that element of it. Based on everything I’ve seen, and I think
I’ve seen everything that’s ever been done as far as the investigations into
Death Row. I saw the whole federal
investigation into them, the whole drug case.
Everything that’s ever been documented from law enforcement I had access
to and read. Certainly he ruled with an
iron fist. There was an absolute environment of
fear. When you crossed him there was
going to be heavy consequences. You see
all the law suits that were brought on from different people, and they just
kind of settle out. It’s pretty amazing
that he’s gotten away with everything that he’s gotten away with.
Scott Wilson: You’ve
surely encountered some very bad people in your career as a detective. To be sure, neither 2Pac nor Biggie were
perfect angels in life, but I don’t necessarily seem them as villains
either. Do you think that either of them
did anything to warrant dying such violent deaths?
Greg Kading: No,
absolutely not. I think both of them
were incredibly talented, and they came from backgrounds that were difficult. Coming up on the streets and with single
parents and all of that, I can understand how they might get themselves into
some of the little pickles. Certainly,
nothing that they did would have allowed somebody to look back and say that
they created this mess for themselves, or brought it upon themselves.
Scott Wilson: Since
Mob Piru Bloods member Wardell “Poochie” Fouse a.k.a Darnell Bolton and Southside
Crip Orlando “Baby Lane” Anderson are both dead, could it be said that justice
has already been served from a street perspective?
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Orlando "Baby Lane" Anderson is widely believed to have been the shooter in the Tupac Shakur murder |
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Mob Piru Bloods member Wardell “Poochie” Fouse a.k.a Darnell Bolton, who Greg Kading believes was the shooter in the Biggie Smalls murder. |
Greg Kading: That’s
the way I see it. I think that’s the
perfect justice. Eye for an eye, tooth
for a tooth. Both of these shooters died
in the same violent manner that they dispelled on Tupac and Biggie, so I think
that at least in those two particular situations, that’s the best sort of
justice.
Scott Wilson: You
seemed to get emotionally and personally involved with the case by the time you
were taken off of it. What fostered such
a reaction? Was it simply a desire to
see justice prevail? Did you at any
point feel sympathy for the victims?
Greg Kading: As a
homicide investigator, when you go into it, you don’t necessarily evaluate the
lifestyle or the character of your victim.
You’re just simply there to solve the case. These obviously are some very high profile
figures, which just adds to it and makes it that much more important to solve. You don’t stand in judgment of the victim(s);
otherwise you won’t be motivated to solve them in many cases.
I’m a person that if you’re going to give me a job to do,
I’m going to give a thousand percent. When
you’re asked to do something and then you give everything you’ve got in
furtherance of that goal and then you’re pulled from it for no other
justifiable reason, there’s a sense of betrayal too. There were a lot of different factors
here. I felt like we’d essentially
solved the cases. There was still stuff
that we were going to accomplish.
I can tell you this, and there’s no way for me to prove this:
Had I been left to finish what we started, there would be people in jail
today. I am absolutely confident of
that. So that’s disappointing and
discouraging. I’ve always worked that
way, I’ve always been 110% committed to anything that I do, It just happened that I was going to be as
committed as anything else I did in my career.
Scott Wilson: You
mentioned a New York drug dealer by the name of Eric “Zip” Martin aka Equan
Williams. Your book says that he
provided the .40 caliber Glock handgun that was used to kill Tupac. He’s kind
of a shady or vague character in your book. He’s just an associate of Keefe D
and Puffy. The book’s not about him, so
you really don’t get to know him or his organization. By him being involved,
does that lend any credence to Tupac’s theory about there being an east coast
conspiracy against him?
Greg Kading: No,
I don’t necessarily know that. I don’t
know if Zip has a relationship with Jimmy
Henchmen or Haitian Jack. I do know that
Zip has a relationship with Puffy. Zip
was close with that circle of friends out there. He was actually godfather to one of Puffy’s
kids. There’s a very close knit
connection between Zip and Puffy. Zip,
as I mentioned in the book, was initially a go between for Puffy and the
Southside Crips. He was getting all this
PCP and cocaine from Keefe D out here (Los Angeles). So it does reinforce and substantiate Keefe
D’s claims because you see this very strong alliance between Zip and
Puffy. So when those connections are
made, it makes perfect sense. We see Zip
out there in Las Vegas at the time Tupac is murdered. Then you have his associates, one of which is
an informant that provided law enforcement with some details early on about his
involvement in the case. So there’s a
pretty compelling situation with him as the middle man.
Scott Wilson: If
your book Murder Rap accomplishes
anything, what do you want it to be?
What do you hope this book will do?
Greg Kading: I
hope it will educate the public, for those who care to know what exactly
happened. This is built on facts and
evidence, not speculation and theory. If
nothing else, it will at least change the history of what people believed
happened. Short of ever getting any criminal prosecutions in the case, this is
as good as it gets. At least people can
say I’m confident in what had occurred, and we don’t have to settle for theory
and speculation anymore.
*(Greg kading's book ‘Murder Rap: The Untold Story of the Biggie
Smalls and Tupac Shakur Murder Investigations’ can be purchased through it's official website, or through retail outlets such as Amazon.com.)
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